Final Reflection Summary

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This module provides us with solid foundation on developing our Professional Profile to ‘market’ ourselves to potential employer.

My currently owned professional profile:

1. Twitter: https://twitter.com/y_mingzs
2. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/lim-yi-ming/a9/785/52
3. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yiming100

See the improvement in my Digital Literacy after this module.

	Rating at start of module	Rating at end of Module
Accessing, managing and evaluating online information	3	4
Participating in online communities	2	3
Building online networks around an area of interest	2	4
Collaborating with others	2	3
Creating online materials (text, audio, images, video)	3	4
Managing your online identity	3	4
Managing your online privacy and security	4	5

To participate more in online communities to help enhanced reputation, I will start topic threads with discussion, create write-up blogs and published in open-access. I will create multiple online identities to distinguish myself between personal and professional life since I am now aware of how many employers are viewing your profile. This is in contrast to what I previously thought of after reading Novina’s examples of how people got fired because of inappropriate posts. As such, I will be very careful in revealing information by setting profile to private and enhancing computer security. Getting members to join via social medias to create word of mouth and encouraged their participation. My works will be shared in various social media platforms to gain popularity since I know how companies are now hiring through online recruitment and looking at your profile. I will broaden my online networks by following twitter accounts and blogs I am interested in and participate in their discussions.

Below are some accounts I have follow on social media marketing:

With that, I can grab potential employers attention on my impressive stuffs. LinkedIn is one of the platform I will utilize to display information about myself (qualification, experience). Of course this has to be authentic and Professional. I will picked on the job category which I most interested on and try to build relationship with them by joining in their group and interact with them. I will introduce them my write-up blogs, online discussions to gain their interest on me. A discussion with tor helps me realize how important it is to be UNIQUE and for this, I will use what Charmaine have introduced in making a STANDOUT LinkedIn headline. My next aim is to learn video/image editing skill-set so I can build a professional blog and create videos to ‘market’ myself as mentioned by yanyi.

My priority starts with creating separate identities. Then, to grab people’s attention, I will start interact with them by following their page and participate in their discussions. Moving on, I will create blogs and start my write-ups on my area of expertise and building online community. I will need more time in learning photo/image editing skills and I will only be able to update my LinkedIn profile upon graduation as a true Bachelor in Marketing.

Objective	Measurement	Priority
Creating separate account (Personal vs Professional)	A new Professional Twitter account A LinkedIn Account	1 (Fast and Easy)
Participate in online discussions, following their page	Participate in at least 3 online discussions/forums over a six month period	2
Create blog to do write-ups	Minimum 1 Blog per month	3
Learning Image/Video Editing Skills	Able to use tools like Photoshop and Windows movie maker	4 (*Probably need more time to learn)
Update LinkedIn Account	A UNIQUE LinkedIn Headline and updated profile	5 (* upon graduation)

I realized learning is not just confined to classroom boundaries, we can all learn and work from the comfort of our home thanks to technology such as Google Hangout, Hotmail. Moving forward, I am now more confident of looking out for reliable information online and make full use of open-access articles such as ScienceDirect which will come in handy especially with dissertation. Also, I am mindful of the contents I post online as they can have a detrimental effect on one’s reputation.

Reflection on Topic 5: Should online materials be FREE?

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Great to see many of us having differing views on this topic. Students like us will mostly support open-access because it benefits us. Nevertheless, we should be neutral and look at safeguarding the interests of PUBLISHER, CONTENT-PRODUCER AND READER.

Publishers earn revenues through collecting fees from readers and while their revenue may be affected (Amanda) , i shared with her a new concept called ‘author’ pay whereby the author pays to the publisher instead to get their works published. Coupled with the revenue earn from readers (Universities, Individuals), they are not at a disadvantage. I got this inspiration from reading Jessica-Peacock (uosm2033) about her thoughts on a new business model which led me to find out more. READ HERE

Several famous Content-Producers went through much effort before getting their work accepted. They should be given credit for their work and paid reasonably. What’s makes worse is the problem of online piracy where people illegally download works and pass off as their own.

For READER , we should be responsible and acknowledge the source we take from. In education perspective, governments/institutions should be involved. Amanda and Simon brought an issue on cost of open-access. US government introduce laws that requires taxpayer-funded research to be open-access 12 months after publishing which is a good way for both readers and publishers. READ MORE. As what I replied to Amanda, encourage non-profit-organisation/publishers to give back to society by handling out bursaries to help the less-fortunate. An example is CLASS where I recently received S$X from them as part of their effort in giving back to society.

In conclusion, I think education plays a big part in one’s life. And nobody should be denied access to education because they can’t afford it, and therefore it is the collaborative effort among all to ensure information is disseminated to those who need it.

My 2 Comments:

Amanda (MANG 2049): http://limxuanamanda.wordpress.com/2014/12/10/topic5-openness-to-free-access-to-online-materials/

Jessica-Peacock (UOSM 2033): http://jesspeacock.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/access-denied/comment-page-1/#comment-33   (Comment on Google Docs as it is currently not published on her blog)

My reply to Amanda:

https://yimingsotonmang2049.wordpress.com/2014/12/09/should-online-materials-be-free/comment-page-1/#comment-26

Should Online Materials be FREE ?

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As technology advances, the use of traditional media to obtain information have dwindled over the years and replaced by online content. The Figure below shows the time people spend online  compared to traditional media.

Source: http://insight.globalwebindex.net/ (Digital vs Traditional Media Consumption Summary)

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From the perspective of education, one of the problem we students faced when looking for information online is e-books that requires purchase. These are well-known authors and recommendation by Professors. It is frustrating for us having to fork out our own pocket-money to purchase something we may not need eventually.

An example of an E-Book I would like to use on HRM Assignment but was required to purchase.

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Thankfully, institutions such as University of Southampton have linked with ScienceDirect which allows access to online materials using school login credentials.

Content-Producers objected using their works because of infringement to copyrights and licensing issues since they should be the one deciding whether the work should be open-access. 

What authors should know is there are actually advantages of providing FREE online resources. Poor children in less-developed countries can receive high standard education and improve their economy and social aspect of lives. If the quality of your works are good, it can generate positive word of mouth and attract potential buyers to buy more of your works, and in the process earning more money and reputation. Also, as knowledge spreads, new theories and ideas can be generated to create something that benefits people.

Below shows the benefits of having open-access.

On the flip side, I will sympathize with the feelings of these content-producer because it undermines the effort they have put in – the time, money, invested and yet got no returns. Here are some examples of a few famous authors who took countless pains and efforts before getting their works accepted. In addition, online piracy adds fuel to the fire when people illegally download content online for free. This example of authors banding together to counter pirate E-Book site clearly shows their frustrations.

In conclusion, my thoughts is having unrestricted access of online materials for education with the government, institutions and non-profit organization funding for the license fee because we should not deprive opportunity for people to expand their knowledge. In this way, the interest of both parties are satisfied – students gets ALL information they want and content-producers gets their return. CLASS is a non-profit organization in Singapore that helps to protect the interest of owners of copyright materials and licensees. And also, we should always add reference in our report as a way to credit them for their work.

References

Anon, (2014). 1st ed. [ebook] GlobalWebIndex, p.4. Available at: http://insight.globalwebindex.net/hs-fs/hub/304927/file-1414878665-pdf/Reports/GWI_Media_Consumption_Summary_Q3_2014.pdf?submissionGuid=78487a74-bc3f-4dea-a5a3-7d9af08b229a [Accessed 9 Dec. 2014].

Class-singapore.com, (2014). The Copyright Licensing and Administration Society of Singapore. [online] Available at: http://www.class-singapore.com/Licencing.aspx [Accessed 9 Dec. 2014].

Sciencedirect.com, (2014). ScienceDirect – Login via your institution. [online] Available at: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/externallogin [Accessed 9 Dec. 2014].

Staff, W. (2011). Famous Author Rejection Letters: Examples Of Famous Author Rejections. [online] Writer’s Relief, Inc. Available at: http://writersrelief.com/blog/2011/07/famous-author-rejection-letters/ [Accessed 9 Dec. 2014].

TeleRead: News and views on e-books, libraries, publishing and related topics, (2012). Authors band together to attack pirate e-book site –. [online] Available at: http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/authors-band-together-to-attack-pirate-e-book-site/ [Accessed 9 Dec. 2014].

Reflection on Topic 4: Ethics in Business using Social Media

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This topic is relevant to us since we are becoming future marketers who are relying heavily on social media for marketing. It guides us the correct online behavior we should abide to prevent us getting into trouble. I would liken social media to be viruses that can spread rapidly in a very short time. My fellow peers have showed several examples of how people get sacked because of inappropriate posts.

Vanessa and Ruhuan responded to the question in regard to whether employer checking on employee’s personal profile is ethical. Employers should NOT check on employees profile for fault as it intrudes their privacy. But rather, checking potential employees before hiring is acceptable as recruitment cost is high. I also agree with Ruhuan set the settings to private if you do not wish people to view your profile (especially your bosses). I have previously emphasized that on Topic 2 Reflection!

Looking at perspective of monitoring companies social media platforms, i agree with Corinne response that employers have the rights to protect their own reputation. I have shared on how reputation benefits company.

Evan question to what extent we should limit our views to social media is difficult to tell whether the message is offensive because of differing views and cultural differences as mentioned in Evan’s comment. This means we must be sensitive and accommodate to the culture of the country as mentioned by Zoie.

In conclusion, i think all parties (employers, employees, customers) should be mindful of what they post. We must NOT mix personal life with work and be sensitive to others when choosing words/images. If otherwise, consider creating two online identities – Personal and Professional. There should be a set of guidelines/policy drafted by the company and feedback channel for employees to protect interest of both parties.

Vanessa, Ruhuan and Evan Comments on my blog: https://yimingsotonmang2049.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/use-social-media-responsibly-be-ethical/

My Comments:

Evelina: https://evelinalim.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/social-media-at-work-lets-think-before-we-post/

Corinne: https://corinnesim.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/the-abuse-of-social-media-at-work/

Use Social Media responsibly – BE ETHICAL !!!

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Hello Social Marketing, bye-bye traditional Marketing ! The use of social media in business have grew tremendously over the years with over 93% of marketers use them for business according to statistics by (Fast Company, 2013). Some of the advantages of social marketing are stated HERE

The statistics below shows the impact social media has towards businesses.

Source: http://www.slideshare.net/HubSpot/the-2012-state-of-inbound-marketing-webinar

While social media is not the silver
bullet that some pundits claim it to
be, it is an extremely important
& relatively low cost touch point
that has a direct impact on sales
& positive word of mouth.

By: JOSH MENDELSOHN
VICE PRESIDENT
CHADWICK MARTIN BAILEY 

This shows how social media can plays a huge role in getting more customers on board through word of mouth and getting new customers beyond what is restricted in the originate country.

As such, it is important for the company to conduct themselves well in the online world for the sake of their reputation. As much as word of mouth can bring in customers, it can also creates negative image of the company. The benefits of a good corporate reputation can be found HERE.

Using social media in a responsible way.

According to  (Institute of Business Ethics, 2011), Companies should devise policies to educate their employees on personal social media habits, including refraining from posting job-related stuffs or words that can damage the company’s reputation. Administrators managing the social account of the company should be advised on the correct behavior on the site. The policy should be aware by everybody in the company and reviewed regularly based on feedback.

Blogging4Jobs gives many examples of employee being fired over ‘inappropriate’ comments on social media.

Employers role is to keep employees happy by taking their feedback seriously and take action. A disgruntled employee can do harm to the company by vending their frustrations online.

(CSID.com) provides a few tips companies can adopt to mitigate the concern on using social media carelessly.

• Consider requiring that employees make separate personal and professional accounts. (Multiple online identities)
• Require that social media passwords must be different from work logins. Employees should not reuse work emails and passwords for personal sites.
• Make sure that the corporate social media accounts are the most popular. In this way customers and other consumers may recognize the organization’s statements as reflective of corporate conscious.
• Offer social media training that increases their information literacy, and allows them to understand that actions (or speech) have consequences.

Customers often likes to post comments on the company social media sites if they met with bad experience companies have to be careful in their response to avoid further aggravation. The matter can go out of proportion if not handled well. This incident in Singapore involving Starbucks is  interesting as the company is bold in defending its staff amid complaints by the students. The approach by Starbucks did not drew criticism but applause from many people.

Story can be found HERE.

While we are given the freedom of speech in the online world, we must be aware of the dire consequences we could have create due to our ‘carelessness’ in our messages that me misinterpret as ‘inappropriate’. Some companies actually monitor their employees social media movement. which comes into another question, is this ethical for employers to do that?

References

120 Awesome Marketing Stats, Chart and Graphs. (2014). 1st ed. [ebook] p.55. Available at: http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/53/blog/docs/ebooks/120-marketing-stats-charts-and-graphs.pdf [Accessed 5 Dec. 2014].

Cooper, B. and Cooper, B. (2013). 10 Surprising Social Media Statistics That Will Make You Rethink Your Social Strategy. [online] Fast Company. Available at: http://www.fastcompany.com/3021749/work-smart/10-surprising-social-media-statistics-that-will-make-you-rethink-your-social-stra [Accessed 5 Dec. 2014].

Csid.com, (2014). Employee Social Media Use Can Affect Small Business Reputation. [online] Available at: http://www.csid.com/2014/06/employee-social-media-use-can-affect-small-business-reputation/ [Accessed 5 Dec. 2014].

Harrison, K. (2014). Corporate Reputation :: Why a good corporate reputation is important to your organization. [online] Cuttingedgepr.com. Available at: http://www.cuttingedgepr.com/articles/corprep_important.asp [Accessed 5 Dec. 2014].

Slideshare.net, (2014). The 2012 State of Inbound Marketing Webinar. [online] Available at: http://www.slideshare.net/HubSpot/the-2012-state-of-inbound-marketing-webinar [Accessed 5 Dec. 2014].

Socialmediaworks.com, (2014). Social Media Marketing – Traditional Marketing | Social Media Works. [online] Available at: http://www.socialmediaworks.com/news-tools-tips/social-media-marketing-tips/ [Accessed 5 Dec. 2014].

The Ethical Challenges of Social Media. (2014). 1st ed. [ebook] Institute of Business Ethics. Available at: http://www.ibe.org.uk/userassets/briefings/ibe_briefing_22_the_ethical_challenges_of_social_media.pdf [Accessed 5 Dec. 2014].

Reflection on Topic 3 : Building an Authentic Professional Profile

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This is by far the most interesting topic to date as i got to know people different opinions on what contributes to be authentic. Sara and charmaine pointed out self-branding as the KEY to market yourself to future employers and the need for social interaction with your target audience (future employer, clients, investor). Sara was right in saying we must be proactive in promoting ourselves. I shared a link with her which teaches on how to buildup network which I thought I can share HERE. Charmaine link on to how to create a unique LinkedIn headlines gives me ideas on how to better profile by LinkedIn account. Stay tuned!

I was looking through yanyi post and found the video that was introduced to us by Prof Edgar Meyer. I had the same thought to using different platforms to brand yourself such as a video portfolio.

Vanessa viewpoint on how a profile image may differ with regard to the profession you are in sets me to think in a different perspective. My previous thoughts was all online profiles should have a professional picture of themselves.

Tor (wei seong) is asking me how a blog can help potential employers to spot you when there are other people wanting the job helps me realize the importance of being UNIQUE, to make yourself stand out.

As HRM have over the years evolved to SHRM which focus on linking business and HR Strategy together, and thus many employers now eagerly trying to find the RIGHT CANDIDATE and the web is becoming a source to get their talent. Businessballs shows what companies can do to promote themselves to potential employees/talent.

In conclusion, this topic really helps me in knowing how important it is to brand yourself well and be unique and stand out among others. AUTHENTICITY, PROFESSIONAL and UNIQUENESS should come together when creating online profile.

My 2 comments:

Charmaine: http://verycharmainemuchopinions.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/standing-out-amongst-the-5-4-million/

Sara: http://saradanlee.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/personal-branding-your-career-insurance/

Tor (wei seong) comment on my blog: https://yimingsotonmang2049.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/developing-professional-online-profile-how-tell-me-please/

Developing Professional Online Profile. HOW ? TELL ME PLEASE!

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You would be amazed by how online recruitment have overtaken traditional method in hiring. Newspaper articles, job boards are a thing of past and employers are now using online tools to advertise their jobs (e.g twitter, LinkedIn). The survey results by Jobvites shows more recruiters are now using social media for hiring.

Source: Jobvites.com – 2014-social-recruiting-survey-infographic

LinkedIn is a particularly hot-shot for job seekers with Social Meeps revealed 89% of employers hired someone from there. Hence, it is considered one of the best online professional profile you can develop to boost your chances being spotted by potential employer.

LinkedIn provides the space for individual to create their professional online profile  by providing basic job descriptions (Job experience, industry worked), etc and based on this, candidates can know related jobs posted by recruiters.

Source: socialmeep

So, how do i make myself ‘visible’ to potential employers?

Firstly is to have social media account. Employers are constantly on lookout for candidates online to get more information about the applicant beyond what the resume can give. More people now also refer their LinkedIn/Twitter when doing job hunting. The statistics below shows how social media plays a significant role in recruitment.

Source: MANG 2055- Recruitment and Selection Topic by Prof. Edgar Meyer

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In addition to having social media accounts,  information provided must be genuine and valid, for example, previous job experience and expertise, otherwise you will lose credibility.

This video shows what how you could make use of social media to get jobs

I agreed with Catherine (uosm2033) view that to maintain an authentic and professional accounts in social media, you need to be careful of what you POST online (Facebook Photos, offensive messages on twitter) and control visibility and connections on LinkedIn, especially if you had only a SINGLE IDENTITY.

To further enhance your professional profile, blogs and videos are a great way for one’s to promote themselves. Blog posts allow potential employers to know your true self and participate in conversations, and the interest or liking you might have. Beyond words, using videos as a way of creating personal profile is a powerful tool to do self-promoting. Prof Edgar Meyer show us a video during his lecture about how a guy finally managed to get a job by making a video of himself introducing to potential employers when previous attempts to get a job went unfruitful.

Developing and maintaining a professional profile helps portray a positive image of ourselves and attract job suitors which is massively important since we are graduating in 2 year’s time! I hope future employers are looking at me now at LinkedIn 🙂

References

Akiode, S. (2013). [INFOGRAPHIC] The Social Recruiting Pocket Guide – SocialMeep. [online] SocialMeep. Available at: http://socialmeep.com/infographic-the-social-recruiting-pocket-guide/ [Accessed 2 Dec. 2014].

Hunt, C. (2014). Standing Out in a Crowd – Developing Online Professional Profiles. [online] UOSM 2033 Living and Working on the Web. Available at: https://adamstiles93.wordpress.com/2014/11/06/standing-out-in-a-crowd-developing-online-professional-profiles-2/ [Accessed 2 Dec. 2014].

Kasper, K. (2014). The 2014 Social Recruiting Survey Results. [online] Jobvite. Available at: http://www.jobvite.com/blog/2014-social-recruiting-survey-infographic/ [Accessed 2 Dec. 2014].

Reflection: ONE Online Identity or MORE?

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Reading my fellow peers posts on whether having multiple online identities is necessary is bugging me. At the end of the day, i believed there is no definite answer as it depends on how YOU manage your own personal account. Novina comments on my post that there is an employee who was fired after photo of her smoking is posted online, this would not have happened if she have set her twitter setting to ‘private’, or another way would be to have a separate account for personal use and one for professional.

I agree on Kelly about how having multiple identities reduces one credibility. People will cast doubts over whether this account belongs to you because there are people who is trying to impersonate as the owner of their page and carry out malicious act. Remember, the more accounts you have, the more risk you run having your account hacked.

I liked how aetiiqcaz has the same view as me on how having a wild photo of yours on social media should not affect the way employer see you as an employee. However he brings me a question of how it will tarnish a company reputation have set me to think twice on this issue. My thoughts/reply is again, managing your privacy setting!

Lastly kelly and zoie (limmingru) thoughts on how marketers can retrieve more information about consumer’s buying behavior by tracking their usage pattern, this brings the question of ethical? Are these consumers consent to having their personal information leaked?

In conclusion, this topic sets me thinking about whether to create a separate account between personal and professional which is something i have never thought before as i felt it is sufficient to have just one. It also astonishes me how many employers are actually ‘looking at you’ online and we must be careful of what we post online.

My 2 comments:

Zoie (limmingru): https://crossingthought.wordpress.com/2014/12/01/online-identity-one-or-more/

Aetiiqcaz: https://aetiiqcaz.wordpress.com/2014/12/01/one-girlfriend-or-more-hmm/

Single OR Multiple Online Identity ?

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The maintenance of our online account(s) is  important in the internet world. There are crooks out there who are trying to retrieve information that you revealed online to carry out malicious act/activities that you have not consent to (for example money laundering,online fraud,etc) and damage your reputation.

A recently story in Singapore about how personal information of the owner of a mobile shop owner was obtained online and shared in the online community who was heavily condemned by the public for being a dishonest businessmen. The culprit who is responsible for this is likely to have commit and offence under MISCELLANEOUS OFFENCES (PUBLIC ORDER AND NUISANCE) ACT under Singapore Law. However, the challenge in prosecution lies in the ability to track down the anonymous person behind this.

Story can be seen HERE

Online anonymity gives one the freedom of speech to say anything ,however this often invites cyber bullying and personal attack. I applaud Facebook and Google to be supportive of being identity-centric by requiring people to have genuine identity.

So is it a good idea to have multiple online identities?

Having multiple identities creates separation between personal and professional life. According to a study by (TheNextWeb, 2012), more than 37% of prospective employers are looking at applicant’s Facebook profile. I do think that applicants should not be judged based on their Facebook profile as it does not correctly reflect the individuals work capability, it is their work competency that COUNTS! Having a wild photo does not shows the person is a bad worker, and in fact it shows the person knows how to work and play. Alan Henry (2012) gives a few reasons why we should have separate identities:

• It provides a layer of privacy (through obscurity)- free to comment as an anonymous without fearing your professional profile be impacted 
• You have control over your professional appearance- what information people should see/should not see
• Avoids information overload, for you and your audience- keeping information relevant to your direct audience

With that said, having multiple online identities have its cons too. 

The first being impersonation. People are able to obtain your information via Google and pass it off as you. You might end up having to be the scapegoat of something you have never done.

In all, i think whether or not having more than one online identity matters. What is more important though is practicing good online habits such as having a strong password, keep personal information private to keep yourself safe in the online world.

References

Henry, A. (2014). Should I Keep My Personal and Professional Identities Completely Separate Online?. [online] Lifehacker. Available at: http://lifehacker.com/5898370/should-i-keep-my-personal-and-professional-identities-completely-separate-online [Accessed 1 Dec. 2014].

Masters, A. (2014). Identity on the Internet: The pros and cons of anonymity | | Independent Editor’s choice Blogs. [online] Blogs.independent.co.uk. Available at: http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/09/19/identity-on-the-internet-the-pros-and-cons-of-anonymity/ [Accessed 1 Dec. 2014].

Messieh, N. (2012). 37% of Employers Look Up Employees on Social Media. [online] The Next Web. Available at: http://thenextweb.com/socialmedia/2012/04/18/survey-37-of-your-prospective-employers-are-looking-you-up-on-facebook/ [Accessed 1 Dec. 2014].

Reflective Summary: Topic 1

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Prior to this module, i have no clue of what Digital Resident/Visitors meant. I realize how important technology plays a part in our lives regardless of age, background etc. It sets me thinking about which one i belongs to. I guess it is difficult to classify ourselves in either one. The interesting fact is that upon reading some of the posts by my fellow friends, most of them share the same sentiments. You may have social media account(s) and are only moderately active, or because circumstances requires you to have one, so am i consider a Digital Resident?

Most of us also agreed age does not plays a part in deciding whether you are more technology competence. Being born in the digital world may give you an advantage in terms of adaptability, but as what Angie has mentioned in my comments that there are actually older people out there who were more technology-savvy than us young people.

I came across a few posts who uses V&R map to classify and i thought is a real fresh concept. It makes me more certain there is no mid point as to which side we belongs.

Winnie comments that acquiring technology skill is not an interest but a natural instinct, my view is it depends on each individual. For example, my parents who received low education are not technology savvy and they are not willing to learn despite having the opportunity. Despite me trying to persuade them to learn technology and keep in touch with the current world, they are unwilling. i believe this is outside of their comfort zone and they are not willing to adapt.

In conclusion, i am glad to have the opportunity to debate and share our views on what constitutes us as a Digital Resident/Visitors and trigger our brain to think.

Comments (by Angie and Winnie): HERE